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12 November 2006 @ 17:52
PS - Chapter 4 - The Keeper of the Keys  
Comments for Chapter 4.

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Ianus Incantatus: Espresso 1janus_incantus on 13th November 2006 01:20 (UTC)
Voldy & the wizarding world & AK
Ok, that was a bit complicated title to basically refer to Godric's Hollow events.

Hagrid says (boldings mine): Some say he died. Codswallop, in my opinion. Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die. Some say he's still out there, bidin' his time, like, but I don't believe it. People who was on his side came back ter ours. Some of 'em came outta kinda trances. Don' reckon they could've done if he was comin' back. Most of us reckon he's still out there somewhere but lost his powers. ...

I find many interesting points in these few sentences.

1) Did Hagrid know about horcruces? Or was it pure coincidence and guesswork he thought there was not enough human left in Voldemort to die? How much does he actually know and what will that imply to the plot in book 7?

2) This reinforces point #1; It doesn't seem plausible that Hagrid wouldn't know about imperitus curse. However, it's probably a subject he thinks he shouldn't talk to Harry, so he uses a vague expression 'kind of trances' instead. This seems to suggest he is not a completely loose cannon, but consciously filters the information he gives out (so he didn't talk about horcrux either).

3) Who are the 'most of us' Hagrid is referring to? Is he thinking about the Order (which most certainly wasn't active at that time)? The happening in OotP give an impression that the majority of Britain's magical population was blissfully ignorant about Voldy's eventual survival.
molecules and agitationdacian_goddess on 16th November 2006 20:03 (UTC)
Re: Voldy & the wizarding world & AK
Those really are very interesting points - I especially like the emphasis you placed on "most of us"; at first read, you'd imagine Hagrid in fact refers to the general public - particularly since we learned when he got Harry away from the Dursleys, that Hagrid's technically not supposed to do magic. That would tend to give the reader the impression that Hagrid is representative of the "average Joe", as it were - just your unschooled groundskeeper, a variable representative of the mediocrity. Of course, in hindsight, we have Hagrid as a very perceptive individual, and an intensely loyal one, to boot. The meaning of most of us could be that Hagrid is referring, not to the Order, but to Dumbledore's most loyal.

*p.s. I go by MysticAngel on HPN ;-)*
Ianus Incantatus: Espresso 4janus_incantus on 17th November 2006 09:46 (UTC)
Re: Voldy & the wizarding world & AK
Wow, our first 'external' commentator! You are hereby awarded a diploma... here we go.

I'm also inclined to think that Hagrid is referred to Dumbledore's 'most loyal'. It's almost scary to note that the reader cannot safely disregard even the most minor details; they can get whole new meanings in the later books.

PS. I added you to my frieds list, too, along with those who have signed in as 'followers' of this community.
wandrin_dreamerpan_alchemist on 29th November 2006 15:23 (UTC)
Re: Voldy & the wizarding world & AK
Very interesting.

I think you guys have covered most of the plausible answers.

I would like to point out the use of the word 'human'. There are many interesting references to 'being human' throughout the books. I think we should keep an eye out for them.